| Forum » General » FINE idea | Date | |
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what do u think?
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Heidstra said: As users, we have to be given some trust as well. We deserve the ability to negotiate our own transfers. We deserve to have the ability to discuss our thoughts and opinions regarding them. Leaving the decision-making process to a group who is entirely removed from the situation cripples the entire process. Gone are the days of actually negotiating a deal, for fear of fiscal penalty. As it stands now, we have no choice but to simply message a fiscal to make our deals for us. Much of our autonomy within the game has been taken away. While I agree with you in principal, if you saw some of the sh*t we see, you'd understand why it is the way it is. In the ever popular "real life", no team would make a transfer way out of market to benefit another team. In SM, we see people making $900 million hostile clauses on $150 million players to move money between two teams, which makes the game highly unfair for all other users. Is the system perfect? No. Is the necessary? In my opinion, yes. In the end, if you want market price, start an auction from zero, show prog/FC, advertise well and you'll get market. If you truly want market, that's what you need to do. |
03/11/2013 01:43 |
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Fiscal
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@sabrefan62 said: Heidstra said: As users, we have to be given some trust as well. We deserve the ability to negotiate our own transfers. We deserve to have the ability to discuss our thoughts and opinions regarding them. Leaving the decision-making process to a group who is entirely removed from the situation cripples the entire process. Gone are the days of actually negotiating a deal, for fear of fiscal penalty. As it stands now, we have no choice but to simply message a fiscal to make our deals for us. Much of our autonomy within the game has been taken away. While I agree with you in principal, if you saw some of the sh*t we see, you'd understand why it is the way it is. In the ever popular "real life", no team would make a transfer way out of market to benefit another team. In SM, we see people making $900 million hostile clauses on $150 million players to move money between two teams, which makes the game highly unfair for all other users. Is the system perfect? No. Is the necessary? In my opinion, yes. In the end, if you want market price, start an auction from zero, show prog/FC, advertise well and you'll get market. If you truly want market, that's what you need to do. We can always talk in extremes, but I would suggest that extremes are the easy cases. Nobody is debating the illegality of a $900M hostile on a $150M player. Examples like this are of the exploitations that I was speaking to earlier. They are unrepresentative of the masses and can't serve as the basis for our fiscal system. What is market value? Why is market value the only price we can buy and sell for? This is what I mean when I speak to the fact that we've been stripped of our ability to make deals for a fear of being fined. I can no longer make a good deal through hard work, because I'll get fined. I can no longer take a loss on a player because another option came up in short notice, because I will get fined. I can't pay high or sell high, I can't pay low or sell low. We have become slave to "market price" as deemed by the fiscals. Now, I can only auction my players from zero. This is ridiculous. I understand the need to protect and regulate managers, I am not denying that. What I am suggesting, is that we start working together to improve a system we have all agreed is flawed instead of hiding behind it. Something, something, something onward and upward? |
03/11/2013 02:08 |
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In biased fairness to the fiscals, we are just working to regulate the game via the game rules written by the developers. Game rule number six, written by them, not us, says that transfers too high or too low from the market price can be adjusted. That rule, along with all others, is because of abuses that have occurred in the past. Yes, I brought up an obvious illegal transaction, but your response begs the question at what point does a transaction become illegal. 25% above market? 50% above market? 100% above market? This server has players from 100 different countries speaking who knows how many different languages (and Google translate is worthless). In the end, its almost always incredibly difficult to distinguish between "a good deal through hard work" from a significantly below market deal made between two friends because one of them has a game against the top of the board the next day. We attempt to maintain a certain level of fairness for all players, and while its not always perfect, I see it as a necessary evil. |
03/11/2013 02:28 |
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To address your query, I would much rather play a game where we are discussing boundaries than one where we are dictated to. I would much prefer to discuss what is too high or too low than to have high and low be removed entirely. If we are headed this direction, why not just stop everything and make all transactions via auctions from 0? Personally, I would choose to struggle with progress than be complacent and compliant with easy. I have never said that this process was simple. I'm just not willing to settle. We know there is a need for a regulatory system. We know the current system is flawed. We need to improve the culture that we have created so that both parties are helping each other instead of being pitted as opposition. All I ask is that we start doing something about it. |
03/11/2013 02:47 |
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@sabrefan62 said: Yes, I brought up an obvious illegal transaction, but your response begs the question at what point does a transaction become illegal. 25% above market? 50% above market? 100% above market? Anything significantly higher or lower than the "similar transactions" page. And by "significantly", I mean "barely outside of" if there's many similar transactions. If there is only a few, it's a crapshoot. When prog is included in value, it's whatever the buyer will pay for a high prog value- however prog only matters for juniors and we can't transfer anything younger than 16. The current junior market system works well. |
03/11/2013 03:32 |
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My support Heid!  i like that...But i dont think the market is that stable to sell on auction from 0.sometime the players are sold at high price,maybe many teams are interested,some at normal price,while some at low price when just few teams are interested. What about a sale of 80ave CF at 120m or less on auction at 0,is that the market price.what will happen to such,i mean getting less money far from the average market value. Dont crucify me if i dont get it...am just passing by  Edited by Oyewale 03-11-2013 03:41 |
03/11/2013 03:40 |
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When I started reading this thread, I had no idea what it was about. I didn't know that @ can set a recommended price if you asked for one. Now I know something new. In regards to @sabre's comment below, I have played many MMO games. One constant element is people cheating so that they don't have to go through the hard work. Whether it is a bot or script, multi-accounting, or giving resources to others for an unfair advantage, it ruins the game. Having played games where the rules where there and no one ever enforced them so that everyone had to break to rules to compete, I am glad to see that there are actually moderators who enforce the rules. @sabrefan62 said: While I agree with you in principal, if you saw some of the sh*t we see, you'd understand why it is the way it is. In the ever popular "real life", no team would make a transfer way out of market to benefit another team. In SM, we see people making $900 million hostile clauses on $150 million players to move money between two teams, which makes the game highly unfair for all other users. Is the system perfect? No. Is the necessary? In my opinion, yes. In the end, if you want market price, start an auction from zero, show prog/FC, advertise well and you'll get market. If you truly want market, that's what you need to do. |
03/11/2013 07:21 |
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Little offtopic...i got two suggestions about market pricing 1. I think there should be fiscals for avg: ex. 30-50 avg 2 fiscals 50-70 2 fiscals 70-80 e.t.c Fiscal with 70avg team cant know well 90+avg players price,same with 90+avg team fiscal with 70avg players price. If you ask me about price for 40-80avg player any position i have no idea what his price is if i dont ask fiscal. Back then we all knew prices coz we build our team slowly,now market prices go up/down very fast its hard to follow them. I am not attacking any fiscal here,they are doing their job very well so far. In 2 years here only once i was not ok with their pricing(it was about two GKs one 97avg for 2500M and other i think it was 96avg for 1000m,if you ask me price difference between them should be maximum 200-300M) 2. When they punish someone they should add 10% more than market price ex. Lets say i have LW/CF/RW all with 2500M clause and their market price is 2000M,if someone clause all three at 2500M fiscals will take away those extra 1500M. Problem here is that if i want to get same players i need 2200M for each(2000M+10%tax) means i am -600M and can only buy three ~1800M players with that money. P.S Need that achievement for posts i havent post 1 year so dont go hard on me |
03/11/2013 08:51 |
| Wu wei - Div1/Gr1 | ||
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@sabrefan62 said: Heidstra said: Is the system perfect? No. Is the necessary? In my opinion, yes. In the end, if you want market price, start an auction from zero, show prog/FC, advertise well and you'll get market. If you truly want market, that's what you need to do. Auction starting from 0 absolutely don't give the exact market price. this is true in a Game like this one and also in Real Life for example on E-bay; or judicial auctions (made for example on Italy in bankrupt cases). Aswering about solutions....surely an extreme solution is "All auctions from 0; with only a pre-determinate amount of Hours( of auction) similar for every players" and , pay attention, also "the same news for each players" that means progress and fc always visible......(cause if I told to one of my friend that one player has "90 progress", and only him know this, he has more info to bid with highest amount than others managers). Obviously it is a boring, uthopic and not realizing option. This actual system of pricing is good, and the help of @fiscals is necessary. Maybe, the only 2 things, before fined someone, 1) simply ask always to managers the reason of that deal and 2) put visible the discussion, between you, who lead to fined. Edited by mister cap 03-11-2013 17:04 |
03/11/2013 16:57 |
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brezzette said: Little offtopic...i got two suggestions about market pricing 1. I think there should be fiscals for avg: ex. 30-50 avg 2 fiscals 50-70 2 fiscals 70-80 e.t.c P.S Need that achievement for posts i havent post 1 year so dont go hard on me Sweetly  i say -1 to this idea More contributions = less chance to commit mistakes |
03/11/2013 17:07 |
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