| Forum » General » FINE idea | Date | |
|---|---|---|
|
what do u think?
|
||
|
Username
1984 msgs.
International
|
brezzette said: mister cap said: brezzette said: mister cap said: brezzette said: Little offtopic...i got two suggestions about market pricing 1. I think there should be fiscals for avg: ex. 30-50 avg 2 fiscals 50-70 2 fiscals 70-80 e.t.c P.S Need that achievement for posts i havent post 1 year so dont go hard on me  Sweetly  i say -1 to this idea More contributions = less chance to commit mistakes Not true. Ask 85+avg teams about 50-70avg players price,they go to market and look only 85+avg. Not saying fiscals dont know prices,but if few of them monitor low avg. prices and others focus on higher avg. it will be easier for them. Why should one fiscal know prices for every position from 20-99 avg ? That was example up. Ok I will be more clear.......more fiscals who can judge = less chance for anyone to think that 1(or 2) @fiscals "control" the entire market of 86-96 avg players. @Fiscals are Managers like us, and in a situation like your suggest, they could spend more time to justify their actions. Too many pressure in my opinion for who is here first to enjoy. So In an uthopic way, "PRICES" have to be accepted by the biggest population of managers possible.....not by the shortest one. Maybe could be nice if for any not clear case of Fined, 12-14 managers are chosen random to give their opinion (popular jury) like in American Law System  Didnt know that fiscals are managers like us. Like i said it is example, i didint said '1(or2) fiscals. 2-3 fiscals who buy/sell ~70avg daily will know their prices better than 1000 fiscals who buy/sell ~90avg players. So instead of getting price range like 800-1200M from all fiscals,you will get more accurate range like 950-1050M. ''More contributions = less chance to commit mistakes'' its completely opposite. If we have 1000 fiscals we will have price range like 1000-1500M and some managers can get good profit with this price range. P.S That ''1000 fiscals'' is example ''if'' so dont get one word and turn it around like you want. You get my point i guess. I have understand very well your point, not sure if I was able to explain mine. Summerizing go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics Anyway from what I know, some fiscal specialzed for example in def...give above all prices for def...some other one specialized in forwards give above all price for Forwards and so on...... and...in conclusion, I simply told you that for me is a -1 .... Don't go hard with me after asking for you in your first message Edited by mister cap 03-11-2013 22:16 |
03/11/2013 22:07 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
Username
2968 msgs.
Best scorer
|
mister cap said: brezzette said: mister cap said: brezzette said: mister cap said: brezzette said: Little offtopic...i got two suggestions about market pricing 1. I think there should be fiscals for avg: ex. 30-50 avg 2 fiscals 50-70 2 fiscals 70-80 e.t.c P.S Need that achievement for posts i havent post 1 year so dont go hard on me Sweetly i say -1 to this idea More contributions = less chance to commit mistakes Not true. Ask 85+avg teams about 50-70avg players price,they go to market and look only 85+avg. Not saying fiscals dont know prices,but if few of them monitor low avg. prices and others focus on higher avg. it will be easier for them. Why should one fiscal know prices for every position from 20-99 avg ? That was example up. Ok I will be more clear.......more fiscals who can judge = less chance for anyone to think that 1(or 2) @fiscals "control" the entire market of 86-96 avg players. @Fiscals are Managers like us, and in a situation like your suggest, they could spend more time to justify their actions. Too many pressure in my opinion for who is here first to enjoy. So In an uthopic way, "PRICES" have to be accepted by the biggest population of managers possible.....not by the shortest one. Maybe could be nice if for any not clear case of Fined, 12-14 managers are chosen random to give their opinion (popular jury) like in American Law System Didnt know that fiscals are managers like us. Like i said it is example, i didint said '1(or2) fiscals. 2-3 fiscals who buy/sell ~70avg daily will know their prices better than 1000 fiscals who buy/sell ~90avg players. So instead of getting price range like 800-1200M from all fiscals,you will get more accurate range like 950-1050M. ''More contributions = less chance to commit mistakes'' its completely opposite. If we have 1000 fiscals we will have price range like 1000-1500M and some managers can get good profit with this price range. P.S That ''1000 fiscals'' is example ''if'' so dont get one word and turn it around like you want. You get my point i guess. I have understand very well your point, not sure if I was able to explain mine. Anyway from what I know, some fiscal specialzed for example in def...give above all prices for def...some other one specialized in forwards give above all price for Forwards and so on...... and...in conclusion, I simply told you that for me is a -1 .... Don't go hard with me after asking for you in your first message You are not able to explain your point coz you are running in circles and you have no point. Wtf is this :''Anyway from what I know, some fiscal specialzed for example in def...give above all prices for def...some other one specialized in forwards give above all price for Forwards and so on......'' ??? My last post here,cheers. |
03/11/2013 22:19 |
| Wu wei - Div1/Gr1 | ||
|
Username
5633 msgs.
Golden Ball
|
Heid, I know what you mean when you say that bargaining price has been stripped away because of the current system of pricing, however I don't believe it has been stripped away so much as it has been restricted. When you ask a fiscal for a price, more often than not they will provide you with a range. You are free to move outside this range but you do so at your own risk, sticking within the bounds provided will essentially ensure you do not get fined. There may be some extremely rare cases where a price has been fixed by a fiscal illegally but I have never seen that here. This restriction is necessary in order to keep the market as stable as possible and to prevent cheating, as it has been since the game's inception. Other guys, the idea of making fiscals responsible for a certain average has merit, however it is simply not feasible because of the nature of the fiscal job. For the most part, we are unpaid volunteers who login whenever we want. This means that not all fiscals are guaranteed to be available to perform specific pricing tasks and so we must try the handle the whole job as a team. It's a tough job guys and discussion like this is necessary, you should be aware of two things though. 1. Fiscals have a price check thread where they can post for opinion any player they have been asked to price. In most cases, they will wait for at least 2 other fiscals to give their opinion on a player before making a judgement - subject to fiscal availability. It may not be a perfect system, but it works pretty damn well given the sheer volume of price checks we have each day and the fact that @s have lives outside this game. 2. We put ourselves under a lot of scrutiny when it comes to pricing, and providing a price that is too high or too low can be devastating to that @s reputation among the @ group. So we have external and internal pressure to get it as close to correct as we possibly can and some times the process can be quite tedious. Still we do it. Speaking of not bargaining, once you agree to become @ you sign away your right to bargain ever again. Your prices have to be essentially perfect so you get TOLD what you can sell/buy a particular player for - in some cases this results in losing the transaction altogether because the other party simply refuses to sell at the price provided. If you think you got it bad, you got nothing on what we have to go through. So while you may complain about the way prices are obtained for you try to remember what we go through to get you that price, and what we in turn have to go through when we have to get one. The system is not perfect, but I guarantee you won't get a more scrupulous bunch of people to do the job. I've been doing it now for nearly two years and I've only seen the system improve in that time. I hope in the new SM we get more tools to aid pricing and do our job even better - but we'll have to wait and see. Thank you for you time |
04/11/2013 00:13 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
3168 msgs.
Best scorer
|
^ And with that we can shake hands and wish the rest good luck. | 04/11/2013 20:19 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
Fiscal
1835 msgs.
International
|
@Dnsvnsk said: ^ And with that we can shake hands and wish the rest good luck. Hardly. I think we all realize that this is a difficult process, one that asks a lot of both general users and fiscals. That being said, I think were being a bit dishonest with each other. A lot of what I'm reading is highly idealized; what happens in a best case scenario that is very much in the minority. On any given night, dozens of prices are given in General Chat without the consultation of ANY other fiscals. Most fiscals DO have a poor reputation for player pricing which is why most managers go back to the same fiscals for every price or avoid them altogether. Fiscals are often highly divided and regularly at odds with each other. I'm not trying to be harsh here, but we need to open up and see the reality of things. There have been three pretty massive fiscal errors this week alone, costing managers hundreds of millions of dollars, table points and friendships. These things could all be avoided in the future if we can come together and focus on constant improvement. In the end, saying "it's not perfect, it's tough, we work hard, it's not that bad" isn't helping make it better. |
04/11/2013 21:01 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
Fiscal
4210 msgs.
Best scorer
|
I guess I am wondering after reading all this, why even ask a fiscal for a price? Why not just negotiate it directly without asking for a price? | 04/11/2013 21:35 |
| FC need more holidays - Div4/Gr21 | ||
|
Fiscal
3449 msgs.
Best scorer
|
vgates said: I guess I am wondering after reading all this, why even ask a fiscal for a price? Why not just negotiate it directly without asking for a price? Sometimes people want to sell a player and need a price range they can start poking around with. Other times people have agreed to a transfer but there have literally been no transactions for players of that quality ever, so it's hard to figure out a value. Nobody also wants to just auction their 90 av CF from 0 because what if only one person has the money to take the player to "market value" and then you're stuck with a big loss. |
04/11/2013 22:24 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
Username
3756 msgs.
Best scorer
|
So let me get this straight you guys want a Price Check forum be made visible to all managers, so that they can look it up and value players themselves if needed? It may not work. The reason for that is prices at season start and season end are always 10-30% lower than prices during mid season. So if I wanted to extort money I can use mid season prices at season end and sell a player to a manager I know who has cash or I can use the season start prices to sell it dead cheap to a friend. When a fiscal will question you, you simply will point it out and say its on price check forum. When fiscals value players they do tend to look at the time of season when player was priced and take into consideration the prog and fc. 2-3 fiscals price a player when its up for discussion on price check (Moderator Forum). Every fiscal has their own price and we take an average of it (this is just incase if its a high average player with few or no similar transfers). The reason for taking an average price is due to lack of a pricing tool. We have been arguing with developers for a very long time for a proper functioning pricing tool but it seems it falls on deaf ears (nothing we can do there). I myself have seen prices drop in the past few months. Perfect example are my 97+ prog wingers. In May they were valued at 900m+ each and when I got them priced again in July the prices dropped to 400m each. Its because the market started to slow down alot and it was pretty evident from similar transfers. Prices are determined from auctions and not TAs or Direct Purchases. If a player is put on auction with prog and fc visible and sold for X amount that becomes his recent market value. It really doesnt matter what other player you sold last week, last month or last season since prices change over time (at times in just a few weeks). |
05/11/2013 02:21 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
Username
4257 msgs.
Best scorer
|
so we can all conclude that @ss sucks? | 05/11/2013 15:17 |
| - Div/Gr | ||
|
Username
21587 msgs.
Golden Ball
|
akleb said: so we can all conclude that @ss sucks? probably! |
05/11/2013 16:02 |
| 🦊3773™ - Div3/Gr6 | ||
4
